distance between geometries

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distance between geometries

Adam Wulkiewicz
Hi,

I'd like to expose some functionalities that are currently in
index::detail to the user, the algorithms calculating:
- the shortest and longest comparable distance,
- the comparable distance on a path (linestring or segment) to the first
intersected geometry from the first path's point or even from some
intermediate position on the path.

I'd like to expose them to allow users passing a strategy to nearest()
predicate. The user would be able to define how the distance is
calculated. The same predicate would work as knn queries (1) or ray
queries (2).

The use case would e.g. look like this:

1. return 5 buildings (Box) nearest to the river (LineString)

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, shortest_distance), out_it);

2. return 5 bridges (Box) nearest to the begin point(or current
location) along the river (LineString) to the north.

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance), out_it);
tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance(location)), out_it); // maybe

The user would also be able to use the distance to the Geometry related
to the stored bounding box, not only the distance to the bounding box.

Do you think that they're good candidates not only for the BGI but also
for the entire BG? In other words should they be implemented in the
boost::geometry or boost::geometry::index namespace? Also do you have an
idea for the name? Currently I'm using comparable_distance_near() and
comparable_distance_far(). Should they have separate names or e.g. be
implemented as bg::comparable_distance with strategy (probably empty)?

Regards,
Adam
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Re: distance between geometries

Barend
Hi,


On 1-9-2013 15:36, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:
Hi,

I'd like to expose some functionalities that are currently in index::detail to the user, the algorithms calculating:
- the shortest and longest comparable distance,

I assume you mean this?



So the shortest is the normal one, what is available as boost::geometry::comparable_distance

The longest distance is indeed not yet available as distance or as comparable_distance


- the comparable distance on a path (linestring or segment) to the first intersected geometry from the first path's point or even from some intermediate position on the path.

Do you mean a real intersection, or an object touching or somewhere in the neighbourhood?


I'd like to expose them to allow users passing a strategy to nearest() predicate. The user would be able to define how the distance is calculated. The same predicate would work as knn queries (1) or ray queries (2).

The use case would e.g. look like this:

1. return 5 buildings (Box) nearest to the river (LineString)

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, shortest_distance), out_it);

2. return 5 bridges (Box) nearest to the begin point(or current location) along the river (LineString) to the north.

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance), out_it);
tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance(location)), out_it); // maybe

Where is the North specified? Could you make a small picture such that it is crystal clear what is what, and what you exactly mean? Because you mention bridges, my question above will probably be answered by a real intersection... Do we have already something returning the first houses close to the river, following the path?



The user would also be able to use the distance to the Geometry related to the stored bounding box, not only the distance to the bounding box.
That sounds logical to me, this is probably the first thing wanted.

Do you think that they're good candidates not only for the BGI but also for the entire BG? In other words should they be implemented in the boost::geometry or boost::geometry::index namespace? Also do you have an idea for the name? Currently I'm using comparable_distance_near() and comparable_distance_far(). Should they have separate names or e.g. be implemented as bg::comparable_distance with strategy (probably empty)?


The comparable distance is already there. It measures the shortest distance. You can specify a strategy there. Comparable distances are useful for both cartesian systems (pythagoras) as spherical systems (haversine) but not (always) on the Earth, the normal distance-calculation is there used as the comparable strategy too.

So the question is: do we want to indicate the point to where we measure (shortest, longest) too? For index I think this might be indeed useful (you can make queries as "the whole geometry should be located within a certain distance"), for the rest I have never had this question.

What has been asked several times is returning not only the distance (the shortest distance), but also the point on the polygon where this shortest distance is measured. Besides that it is sometimes useful to get the distance from a point inside a polygon to the border (which can also be expressed using something as distance(point, view_as<linestring_tag>(polygon))

So I started (but it is never submitted to SVN) a "distance_info" function, returning 1) the distance from inside (orange point), 2) the projected point (green below), 3) the segment on which it occurs, 4) the distance on that segment (s below). In case of two linestrings/polygons we need to return the 2,3,4 in duplo. In case of multi-polygons we need to return to which polygon(s) but that is part of the segment-identifier which is already available.




Why I'm saying this now is that we might also add the point-to-measure-to (shortest, longest) to this distance_info function as an additional parameter. That fits quite well. You would get the extra info (2,3,4) to that point then too. These are functionalities which are sometimes very useful, but not the first things asked...

There are some additional complexities, because it can well be that a point is located on an equal shortest (or longest) distance to two (or more) segments of a polygon or linestring, so we might need to return a whole collection of projected points...

Regards, Barend



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Re: distance between geometries

Adam Wulkiewicz
Hi,

Barend Gehrels wrote:
On 1-9-2013 15:36, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:
I'd like to expose some functionalities that are currently in index::detail to the user, the algorithms calculating:
- the shortest and longest comparable distance,

I assume you mean this?




Yes, also those would be the shortest distances:



So the shortest is the normal one, what is available as boost::geometry::comparable_distance

The longest distance is indeed not yet available as distance or as comparable_distance


I understand that bg::comparable_distance() is intended to work for all Geometries and e.g. for cartesian it should return the square of the shortest distance between two Geometries. Ok this works for me.


- the comparable distance on a path (linestring or segment) to the first intersected geometry from the first path's point or even from some intermediate position on the path.

Do you mean a real intersection, or an object touching or somewhere in the neighbourhood?

Initially I thought about providing ray queries. Those queries return some number of objects hit by a ray.




Because we don't have a Ray concept I decided to use Segment and by extension Linestring. I thought about a real intersection because this algorithm will probably be the fastest one but more general variations could also be useful. I'd like to allow users using any algorithm they want in a strategy of the nearest() predicate. More algorithms means more possibilities.

Btw, Is this what you've thought?





I'd like to expose them to allow users passing a strategy to nearest() predicate. The user would be able to define how the distance is calculated. The same predicate would work as knn queries (1) or ray queries (2).

The use case would e.g. look like this:

1. return 5 buildings (Box) nearest to the river (LineString)

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, shortest_distance), out_it);

2. return 5 bridges (Box) nearest to the begin point(or current location) along the river (LineString) to the north.

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance), out_it);
tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance(location)), out_it); // maybe

Where is the North specified? Could you make a small picture such that it is crystal clear what is what, and what you exactly mean? Because you mention bridges, my question above will probably be answered by a real intersection... Do we have already something returning the first houses close to the river, following the path?


Ah sorry, I was thinking too fast. In this example the river would probably have to be divided into two linestrings. First one would go in the opposite direction than the second one from some location. The second query() call indeed lack the definition of direction.



Well, in the real life the data would probably be stored in some graph and knn query won't be needed, nevertheless this is an example of a use case.


The user would also be able to use the distance to the Geometry related to the stored bounding box, not only the distance to the bounding box.
That sounds logical to me, this is probably the first thing wanted.

Do you think that they're good candidates not only for the BGI but also for the entire BG? In other words should they be implemented in the boost::geometry or boost::geometry::index namespace? Also do you have an idea for the name? Currently I'm using comparable_distance_near() and comparable_distance_far(). Should they have separate names or e.g. be implemented as bg::comparable_distance with strategy (probably empty)?


The comparable distance is already there. It measures the shortest distance. You can specify a strategy there. Comparable distances are useful for both cartesian systems (pythagoras) as spherical systems (haversine) but not (always) on the Earth, the normal distance-calculation is there used as the comparable strategy too.

So the question is: do we want to indicate the point to where we measure (shortest, longest) too? For index I think this might be indeed useful (you can make queries as "the whole geometry should be located within a certain distance"), for the rest I have never had this question.

The distance in the knn query is used to check which Values are closer than the others so in the case of the longest distance it would be used to sort nearest geometries by the distance to the furthest point.



I indeed used it to locate Values within some distance and removed this possibility because using different predicate - within(circle) is more intuitive. Currently I can't find a reasonable use case for it. And to be honest this algorithm probably won't be needed, at least by the majority of users. Sorry for the confusion.


What has been asked several times is returning not only the distance (the shortest distance), but also the point on the polygon where this shortest distance is measured. Besides that it is sometimes useful to get the distance from a point inside a polygon to the border (which can also be expressed using something as distance(point, view_as<linestring_tag>(polygon))

So I started (but it is never submitted to SVN) a "distance_info" function, returning 1) the distance from inside (orange point), 2) the projected point (green below), 3) the segment on which it occurs, 4) the distance on that segment (s below). In case of two linestrings/polygons we need to return the 2,3,4 in duplo. In case of multi-polygons we need to return to which polygon(s) but that is part of the segment-identifier which is already available.




Why I'm saying this now is that we might also add the point-to-measure-to (shortest, longest) to this distance_info function as an additional parameter. That fits quite well. You would get the extra info (2,3,4) to that point then too. These are functionalities which are sometimes very useful, but not the first things asked...

There are some additional complexities, because it can well be that a point is located on an equal shortest (or longest) distance to two (or more) segments of a polygon or linestring, so we might need to return a whole collection of projected points...

Yes, the knowledge about the position of a measure-point in some cases is useful, e.g. in the Linestring example above where the position of a closest point must be calculated and then it's distance from the beginning of the Linestring.

I thought about something related to this and nearest predicate. If we have two points inside a Polygon or Two Polygons intersecting one Point, which one is the closest?



If I remember correctly, currently I'm using distance = 0 if the Point is inside (intersecting) the Box but one could also say that the closest one is the one nearest to the centroid or further of the border or even something else.

Best regards,
Adam

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Re: distance between geometries

Barend
Hi Adam,

Thanks for your clear images!



On 2-9-2013 0:04, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:
Hi,

Barend Gehrels wrote:
On 1-9-2013 15:36, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:
I'd like to expose some functionalities that are currently in index::detail to the user, the algorithms calculating:
- the shortest and longest comparable distance,

I assume you mean this?




Yes, also those would be the shortest distances:




Sure


So the shortest is the normal one, what is available as boost::geometry::comparable_distance

The longest distance is indeed not yet available as distance or as comparable_distance


I understand that bg::comparable_distance() is intended to work for all Geometries and e.g. for cartesian it should return the square of the shortest distance between two Geometries. Ok this works for me.

OK



- the comparable distance on a path (linestring or segment) to the first intersected geometry from the first path's point or even from some intermediate position on the path.

Do you mean a real intersection, or an object touching or somewhere in the neighbourhood?

Initially I thought about providing ray queries. Those queries return some number of objects hit by a ray.




Because we don't have a Ray concept I decided to use Segment and by extension Linestring. I thought about a real intersection because this algorithm will probably be the fastest one but more general variations could also be useful. I'd like to allow users using any algorithm they want in a strategy of the nearest() predicate. More algorithms means more possibilities.

Btw, Is this what you've thought?




Yes, based on your proposal, I think that intersecting and objects close by are both interesting. But if you want the first 5, you might get ambiguities (closer to starting point, or closer to the line...)




I'd like to expose them to allow users passing a strategy to nearest() predicate. The user would be able to define how the distance is calculated. The same predicate would work as knn queries (1) or ray queries (2).

The use case would e.g. look like this:

1. return 5 buildings (Box) nearest to the river (LineString)

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, shortest_distance), out_it);

2. return 5 bridges (Box) nearest to the begin point(or current location) along the river (LineString) to the north.

tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance), out_it);
tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance(location)), out_it); // maybe

Where is the North specified? Could you make a small picture such that it is crystal clear what is what, and what you exactly mean? Because you mention bridges, my question above will probably be answered by a real intersection... Do we have already something returning the first houses close to the river, following the path?


Ah sorry, I was thinking too fast. In this example the river would probably have to be divided into two linestrings. First one would go in the opposite direction than the second one from some location. The second query() call indeed lack the definition of direction.



Well, in the real life the data would probably be stored in some graph and knn query won't be needed, nevertheless this is an example of a use case.

Sure. OK in this case you can also define the starting point somewhere on a (one) existing linestring and travel both ways along the line. Interesting.



The user would also be able to use the distance to the Geometry related to the stored bounding box, not only the distance to the bounding box.
That sounds logical to me, this is probably the first thing wanted.

Do you think that they're good candidates not only for the BGI but also for the entire BG? In other words should they be implemented in the boost::geometry or boost::geometry::index namespace? Also do you have an idea for the name? Currently I'm using comparable_distance_near() and comparable_distance_far(). Should they have separate names or e.g. be implemented as bg::comparable_distance with strategy (probably empty)?


The comparable distance is already there. It measures the shortest distance. You can specify a strategy there. Comparable distances are useful for both cartesian systems (pythagoras) as spherical systems (haversine) but not (always) on the Earth, the normal distance-calculation is there used as the comparable strategy too.

So the question is: do we want to indicate the point to where we measure (shortest, longest) too? For index I think this might be indeed useful (you can make queries as "the whole geometry should be located within a certain distance"), for the rest I have never had this question.

The distance in the knn query is used to check which Values are closer than the others so in the case of the longest distance it would be used to sort nearest geometries by the distance to the furthest point.



I indeed used it to locate Values within some distance and removed this possibility because using different predicate - within(circle) is more intuitive. Currently I can't find a reasonable use case for it. And to be honest this algorithm probably won't be needed, at least by the majority of users. Sorry for the confusion.

OK. Yes indeed the within(circle) covers that, thanks for explanation and picture.



What has been asked several times is returning not only the distance (the shortest distance), but also the point on the polygon where this shortest distance is measured. Besides that it is sometimes useful to get the distance from a point inside a polygon to the border (which can also be expressed using something as distance(point, view_as<linestring_tag>(polygon))

So I started (but it is never submitted to SVN) a "distance_info" function, returning 1) the distance from inside (orange point), 2) the projected point (green below), 3) the segment on which it occurs, 4) the distance on that segment (s below). In case of two linestrings/polygons we need to return the 2,3,4 in duplo. In case of multi-polygons we need to return to which polygon(s) but that is part of the segment-identifier which is already available.




Why I'm saying this now is that we might also add the point-to-measure-to (shortest, longest) to this distance_info function as an additional parameter. That fits quite well. You would get the extra info (2,3,4) to that point then too. These are functionalities which are sometimes very useful, but not the first things asked...

There are some additional complexities, because it can well be that a point is located on an equal shortest (or longest) distance to two (or more) segments of a polygon or linestring, so we might need to return a whole collection of projected points...

Yes, the knowledge about the position of a measure-point in some cases is useful, e.g. in the Linestring example above where the position of a closest point must be calculated and then it's distance from the beginning of the Linestring.

I thought about something related to this and nearest predicate. If we have two points inside a Polygon or Two Polygons intersecting one Point, which one is the closest?



If I remember correctly, currently I'm using distance = 0 if the Point is inside (intersecting) the Box but one could also say that the closest one is the one nearest to the centroid or further of the border or even something else.

I see, so this is another sort of ambiguity indeed. I don't know what users expect if they ask for the 5 nearest points and there are 10 inside. But using the centroid is an interesting solution. However, if two points are located on the same distance (w.r.t. centroid), you can still get an arbitrary choice... I don't think that is really problematic, though I'm quite sure some users want to have a consistent choice in these cases.

Regards, Barend


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Re: distance between geometries

Adam Wulkiewicz
Hi,

Barend Gehrels wrote:
On 2-9-2013 0:04, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:

Initially I thought about providing ray queries. Those queries return some number of objects hit by a ray.




Because we don't have a Ray concept I decided to use Segment and by extension Linestring. I thought about a real intersection because this algorithm will probably be the fastest one but more general variations could also be useful. I'd like to allow users using any algorithm they want in a strategy of the nearest() predicate. More algorithms means more possibilities.

Btw, Is this what you've thought?




Yes, based on your proposal, I think that intersecting and objects close by are both interesting. But if you want the first 5, you might get ambiguities (closer to starting point, or closer to the line...)


Yes, this is why I'd like to allow users define their strategies and provide some ready-to-use common ones. The default one would use bg::comparable_distance so wouldn't take into account the position on the line.

Yes, the knowledge about the position of a measure-point in some cases is useful, e.g. in the Linestring example above where the position of a closest point must be calculated and then it's distance from the beginning of the Linestring.

I thought about something related to this and nearest predicate. If we have two points inside a Polygon or Two Polygons intersecting one Point, which one is the closest?



If I remember correctly, currently I'm using distance = 0 if the Point is inside (intersecting) the Box but one could also say that the closest one is the one nearest to the centroid or further of the border or even something else.

I see, so this is another sort of ambiguity indeed. I don't know what users expect if they ask for the 5 nearest points and there are 10 inside. But using the centroid is an interesting solution. However, if two points are located on the same distance (w.r.t. centroid), you can still get an arbitrary choice... I don't think that is really problematic, though I'm quite sure some users want to have a consistent choice in these cases.


Exactly my way of thinking. Thanks.

Best regards,
Adam

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